Rahul Gandhi’s Interaction at the ‘Ideas For India’ Conclave, London : Anchor said- This morning you have been discussing Ideas for India, what the next 25 years mean for India and India’s place in the world. We will now listen to another view point, broadly on the same subject from a leader of an organisation, which has arguably been one of the greatest political movements in modern history and an organisation that has existed for 136 years, spear-headed an epic freedom struggle, laid the foundations of an emancipation, introduced the most far-reaching economic reforms in post-independent India and gave the country its highest ever GDP growth, but an organisation which today is facing severe headwinds. So, can the Indian National Congress reinvent itself? Can the Congress of Gandhi, Nehru, Bose, of Azad, Patel and Rajagopalachari, overcome the forces that have gripped India for the past 8 years. We will soon know. Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome Rahul Gandhi.
Rahul, I live in a country 5,000 miles away from home and we get a sketchy picture of what’s going on, so my first point to you would be what’s the big picture, what’s really going on in India at the moment?
Rahul Gandhi said- Sometimes back, I gave a speech in Parliament, where I described India as a Union of States and this is how India is described in our Constitution. India is not described as a nation in our constitution. The line is, India that is Bharat, is a Union of States and the design that was developed by Mahatma Gandhi or I would say that emerged out of the freedom movement was a negotiation between these states and identities, religions and so India didn’t’ develop top down, it almost emerged bottom up and all these states- UP, Maharashtra, Assam, Tamil Nadu, they all got together and created a negotiated peace, let us say.
Found this Union of States, which required a conversation, emerged the instruments of that conversation. The constitution, the idea that one man will have one vote, the election system, the democratic system, an Election Commission, the IITs, the IIMs, all these institutions emerged from the Union that provided that the constitution and from all these institutions that allow this conversation to take place, because it is a negotiation, a dynamic negotiation emerged modern India. Now, what is happening, is there a systematic attack on the institutions that allow the conversation to take place. There is a crushing effect on all these institutions, there is an attack on constitution, there is an attack on the election system, there is an attack on the broad institutional framework of the country and the result is that the states of India are no longer able to negotiate, they are no longer able to talk and that space, that used to be the space of conversation, that used to be the space of negotiation, is being occupied by deep state, by the institutions of the state that control the state internally, the CBI, the ED, that’s what happening and our Job is, the Congress, who actually helped built that structure, helped built that negotiation framework, our job and not just our job, the job of the opposition is to defend that conversation, to make sure that the structures of that conversation, the constitution, the institutions are not captured by the RSS, by one Idea, but, are they accessible to all the states. That is really the battle and if you want to take it to the crux, we believe India is a negotiation between its people, we believe India is its people. The BJP and the RSS believe that it is a geography, that it is a ‘Sone ki Chidiya’ whose benefit should be distributed according to the Karma of its people.
We believe that the benefits of the negotiation should be distributed equally to everybody regardless of what their Karma is. If you are a Dalit, if you are an upper Caste, if you are a Sikh, if you are a Hindu, if you are a Muslim, we believe that you should all have equal access. They believe that the access should not be equal. Certain groups of people should get more benefits from the ‘Sone ki Chidiya’ and other people should get less and less benefits from the ‘Sone ki Chidiya’ and the poorest Dalit should get nothing. That is the real conflict that is taking place.
Anchor asked, so what you described is extremely troubling and I will come back to it in a moment? I have just been passed a slip to say that this conversation is under Chatham house rules if you get what that means and so no videos cameras, please. That’s it. Now, how do you tackle what you describe as a very troubling situation, in other words, you have just had a major party conference, three days at Udaipur when your party had an opportunity to thrash out matters, so which big ideas emerged from that and how to combat what you described as a major hurdle, Rahul Gandhi said- The first thing to understand then, you know, my friends from the opposition here, the first thing to understand is we are not just fighting the BJP. This is no longer just a pure political fight. Anybody, who thinks that this is a fight between one political organisation and a set of other political organisations hasn’t understood, what’s going on. We are now fighting the institutional structure of the Indian state, which has been captured by an organisation, which means the only way for us, we will get no respite from the institutional framework of our country.
The only way for us is to go to the large mass of the Indian people and that’s not just the Congress, that is all opposition parties and so what the Congress basically is structuring as far as Udaipur is concerned is that transition. How does the Congress party now go back to its roots and start moving into mass action? So, that is what was discussed. The central elements of that BJP have a hundred per cent control of media, control of communication, control of those structures. They have broad control of the institutional framework of the country.
So, we have to think about communication. We will not be able to match the funds they have, but, we have to think of communication in a completely new way. We have to think of funding in a completely new way and we have to think about an organisational system, that is much closer to the large mass of people and we also have to think of large-scale mass movements, on issues like unemployment, on issues like prices, on regional issues and we have to coordinate with our friends in the opposition. So, I don’t view the Congress as the big daddy, it is a group effort with the oppositions, but, it is a fight to regain India.
Anchor asked- So you are talking about cementing collaboration with other parties in order to take the movement forward? Rahul Gandhi said- Yes! And the point I made in Udaipur, which was mis-construed is that this is an ideological battle now and it is a national ideological battle, which means that, of course, we respect, for example, the DMK as a Tamil political organisation, but, the Congress is the party that has the ideology at the national level. So, the Congress will have to think about itself as a structure that is enabling the opposition. In no means, the Congress is superior to the other opposition parties. We are all fighting the same battle. They have their space, we have our space, but, the ideological battle that is taking place, is between the national vision of the RSS and the national vision of the Congress.
Anchor said- So, Nehru said in that famous mid-night speech, he spoke about the soul of India having been suppressed under British rule and soul finding utterance, do you see a similarity between the pre-1947 situation in India and today, whether soul of India has been suppressed, Rahul Gandhi said- I would say that from the soul of India comes the voice of India and a soul without a voice means nothing and what has happened, is that India’s voice has been crushed. It has been crushed by an ideology. It has been crushed by the way technology has moved. It has been crushed by the institutional framework of our country itself, which has become parasitical. So, deep states, the CBI, the ED, the stuff that is able is now chewing the Indian states, it is eating the Indian state, much like what happened in Pakistan.
Anchor said- Yes! And I see a lot of political leaders, in fact distinguished friends, Salman Khurshid, former External Affairs Minister of India and Sitaram Yechury, General Secretary of the CPI(M) and several others familiar faces, may not be knowing them personally, but, these audience also have a number of people from the business sector and therefore, I would like to turn to economic affairs, what would Congress’s economic policy be, because it seems to me that certainly in the last 4 years, the Indian economy has been on decline and certainly on a sharp decline in the last 2 years and given this state of affairs, what can you offer to the corporate sector by way of the Congress’s vision, your vision of an economic policy in the event Congress returns to power at the centre, Rahul Gandhi said- Look, if you want to understand the economic policy of India, you have to take a step back and you have to see what’s going on in the rest of the world and broadly, what you see is that the Chinese dominate production on the planet. What America used to dominate 70-80 years ago, America used to be the production centre of the world, today that has shifted to China. Without building a production system, you will call it manufacturing system, but, without building a production system, India is not going to be able to give its people the jobs. It is that simple and we can beat about the bush by saying- we are service center of the world and all that, but, it is going to lead to the social problems, because the vast majority of our people need what can only be given to them from manufacturing, so that is one point.
Moving from an idea of growth is enough to an idea where growth is important, but, production and manufacturing are key and I think, there is a huge opportunity for us, if we think about it properly in that area, because the world wants an alternative.
Second thing is, jobs in India are created in the small and medium business area and that has been systematically attacked and destroyed by the BJP. Demonetisation, GST and later the farm laws, these are attacks on the informal sector, on the small and medium businesses. So, a vision for the small and medium and a vision where you start to put money into those structures and then for the larger businesses on equitable playing field, I mean sorry, but, what is going on in India, there are practically two businesses in India, there is not the third, and that is not good for anybody. So that would be the broad framework.
As far as the private sector vs the public sector, I am of the view that the public sector should be in key strategic industries and should not be doing things that are not strategic and key and I think, it is the private sector, is actually going to drive the economic process of India. So, that has to be freed from the bureaucratic, you know, from the attack that is taking place from the deep state, all the businesses. You can ask any businessmen in India, he will tell you the ED, the CBI, these structures, they are extorting. So, stopping that, putting an end to it and making it a fair and broad playing field. I don’t think, you will see a huge shift away from the basic ideas, foundational ideas of Dr. Manmohan Singh.
We also have to galvanise India into saying- okay, we now need to become the second production centre of the world and enough is enough, let us now get to work. I think, if you think about manufacturing and if you see what China has done in manufacturing. It is essentially they have taken their traditional networks and they have financed and supported them and I think, that is a huge opportunity for us. We have clusters across the country. In every state, we have clusters, leather clusters, brass clusters, agricultural clusters, we have to connect our financial system to these clusters. I mean, if you just look at Uttar Pradesh, pretty much every district has a product that is a world leading product, but, they have no finance, they have no marketing support, they have no incentive structure, so thinking about our past economic system, the past networks and repurposing them, linking them to the global economy and financing them properly. I think, that is a huge opportunity for Indian businesses.
One last thing, I think, it is very dangerous for one company to control all the air ports, all the ports, all the infrastructure.
Anchor said- you are talking about private sector monopoly, which used to exist long time ago, but, the liberalisation of 1991 ended of that, Rahul Gandhi said- But, it is never existed in this form. It has never existed with such massive concentration of power and capital and this is another aspect that is throttling the conversation, because there is control of the media through this concentration of capital.
Anchor said- but there is a reality and the reality is that unemployment is at a record level; wholesale inflation, I am told, has now reached 15 percent and yet the BJP is winning elections and the Congress is not, why is this happening? Rahul Gandhi said- Polarisation and total dominance of Media. If you spend 4 or 5 hours looking at Indian television, you will find, you will listen only Mr. Narendra Modi. You suddenly wouldn’t see, my friend Yechury Ji on television, and in fact, I don’t think, he ever been on television. Not to be mean, I would love to see him on television, but, I don’t think, they would like to give that perspective, also there is another thing, which one has to accept, which is that the RSS has built a structure that has penetrated into the large mass and the opposition parties and the Congress need to build such structure and we need to go much more aggressively to the large mass of people, the 60-70 per cent of people, who don’t vote for the BJP and we need to do it together.
Anchor said- So, how will you do that, because that is obviously a major challenge, it hasn’t happened for 8 years, Rahul Gandhi said- Through the ideas, or one of the ideas let me, we stated in Udaipur, which is the idea of mass participation. Look, we are sitting on a powder cake. We are sitting on an India that is primed. We have massive level of polarisation. We have huge unemployment; we have, as I said the backbone of employment broken and we have massive concentration of wealth. We are going to have social problems; they are coming without any doubt. There is going to be a mass upsurge, now the question is, can the opposition make that upsurge peaceful, effective in changing the politics? You would also have a situation, where you have an uncontrolled upsurge, which is what we are seeing in Sri Lanka. India is not in a good place; the BJP has spread kerosene all over the country. You need one spark and we will be in a big problem and so, I think, that is also the responsibility of the opposition, the Congress that bring people together, bring the communities together, bring the states together, bring the religions together, so we need to cool this temperature now, because if this temperature doesn’t cool down, things can go up.
Anchor said- you mentioned polarisation, you must have noticed that the US Secretary of State Antony Blinken publicly had a press conference with the Indian External Affairs Minister and Defence Minister present, spoke about human rights violations in India, that I think, coming from the government in the United States, a government which is otherwise quite friendly towards India is certainly something which raised alarms, what is the Congress doing about these alleged human rights violations, Rahul Gandhi said- First of all, I am glad that United States has spoken up to this idea and we have been…, we don’t need United States to tell us that there is polarisation in India and in fact, it has taken quite long time. We are, of course fighting the polarisation. We are, of course holding a position that brings people together and we are doing that, the Congress is doing that, the opposition is doing that, but, I think, what the gentleman reflect, is that a destabilised India, a India which spirals out of control, is a problem for the globe, it is not just a problem for us.
Democracy in India is a global public good. It is a central anchor for the planet because we are the only people, who have managed democracy at the scale that we have. Nobody else has been able to do it, we are 3 times the size of Europe, and we have managed it for the last many decades. If that cracks, it is going to be, of course a problem for the planet and that is what I think, United States is realising.
Anchor said- On the international scene, during the cold war, it was the United States and Soviet Union, two major powers and then it became a unipolar world with the collapse of the Soviet Union, but, now with the rise of China, we once again have two competing powers with India in the middle. How do we manage these two relationships? Rahul Gandhi said- Very carefully, very-very carefully and I don’t say that lightly. There are two competing visions now, for the last hundred years, there was one broad vision on the planet and that was a maritime vision, a sea-based vision; prior to that there used to be a land-based vision. For the first time in the history of the planet, you are now going to get two visions. One is a Chinese terrestrial vision and the other is a United States Maritime vision.
Essentially what the Belt-in road is, is an attempt to revive Silk road, It is an attempt to turn the planet into a terrestrial trading system and the Chinese production system is financing that transition and anybody, who says that they are unlikely to succeed, needs to look carefully that what they are doing. I give you a small sense, I think, it was 2013 or 2014, in that year, the Chinese put down more cement in one year than the Americans put down in a century. Please understand the scale of what is going on. Please understand the scale of what is happening here. It is at a huge scale. Now there has to be a vision to counter this and the disappointment that I have, I can see that the Chinese have a vision, the disappointment I have is that there is no counter vision.
Anchor said- you mean, in India? Rahul Gandhi said- In America and in India. Look, what the Chinese are offering is prosperity. The Chinese are going to this country and saying- Look, we are going to give you infrastructure, we are going to give you the technological backbone and from that we will get prosperity, we will get money in your pocket. Of course, they have a different motive behind it, and of course you are seeing what is going on in Sri Lanka, but, basic offer is huge amount of money, solid infrastructure and the promise of prosperity. The west is not offering prosperity. The west is saying- stop China. Okay, I agree, stop China, but, what is the alternative vision? How, you are going to offer prosperity to the Planet? And that is how India is to think about it, it is not good enough for us to say, there is this vision and there is that vision. We and you can say how do you bring prosperity to our people, that’s the key and today, there is no prosperity. We are going down, dive and down into the ground.
So, another way I like to say is that from 1990 to around 2012, we had a successful vision for our country, it was working and I remember, once going to Prime Minister in 2012 and saying to Manmohan Singh Ji and said- Manmohan Singh Ji, what has happened, because I could sense that something was not working and I remember him, sitting on the chair and he was saying- Rahul, the levers that used to work are not working anymore, something has happened, the levers that were working one year ago, two years ago, they are just not working anymore and we have entered some sort of the new space. The problem is Narendra Modi Ji attempted to stretch that vision of India, economically and, of course, he is going to different reason, different vision, a non-economic, different social vision, a different vision, but, he tried to stretch that economic vision, it is a dead vision, it has no takers, I can say. And the single biggest reason for that is that essentially the United States had free wing in those enthusiasm. So, we were essentially partners of the super power and that gave us a tremendous steal wand. The United States today has a competitor. The United States today doesn’t have an open field in front of it. So, that has completely changed and we have to think about that change. So, trying to force the same idea that we were running in 1990 and 1990 to 2000, it is not going to work and that is where India is today. So, the task for the opposition is really to give a new vision to the people of India. It is an economic vision, of course, it is a part of this conversation. If we don’t start that conversation, no vision is possible. India is not going to accept a vision that is forced down their throats. I mean, I keep saying it. The Tamils, the Maharashtrians, even UP, Manipur, Nagaland, they have their own vision. You have to incorporate those visions into the Indian vision. You can’t tell them- sorry, this is what we think, now you are going to be forced to do, they will refuse.
So, huge part of it is starting that conversation up again, making all the states believe you there the part of this discussion and then coming up with a set of ideas that solve the production problem, that allow us to navigate the US-China conflict. So, I think, that is a conversation.
Anchor said- You have spoken about prosperity being a way-out, but, the specific situation is that there is high tension with China on the border and it has been there for more than two years, how would you tackle this rather dangerous situation, Rahul Gandhi said- That is exactly the task of foreign policy. That is exactly what Mr. Jaishankar should be doing and we are by the way wasting it. We have a natural ability. Our mind can manage complexity. Please, understand, the Indian mind, if it can do one thing, it can manage complexity beautifully. So, we are faced to the complex situation, we need to manage that complexity. We can’t think about it in a superficial, unsophisticated way. There are structures that we have used, the idea of Panchsheel is there, the idea of neutrality is there. Some version, of course, we have a relationship with the United States, and we have a partnership with the United States, but, we have to navigate this water. But, I think, the way I think about it, I like what Indira Gandhi Ji once said, you lean to the left or you lean to the right, we stand up straight and I think, there is a place for India to…, there is an opportunity and a place for India to stand up straight.
Anchor said- Are you therefore recommending a return to multi alignment as a post leaning towards United States, Rahul Gandhi said- No! I am saying pragmatically navigate the waters that you are in. Look at the situation and pragmatically taking into account your country, your requirements, your needs, the idea of prosperity, the idea of a conversation, use those fundamentals to navigate a situation that you find in that idea. You might find multiple ways to do it, but, don’t forget about your past and about your capabilities. Don’t just say- Bhaiya Theek Hai, Hum Aisa Karega. And to hell with everything that to hell with our history, to hell with our understating. We have huge capabilities. I know, I have seen them, we have huge capabilities in a foreign service. We have huge capabilities and no one is listening to them.
When you stifle a conversation at the national level you also stifle the conversation in the Prime Minister’s office, please understand that. You cannot have a country that is not allowed to speak and then a Prime Minister’s office that tells the Prime Minister the truth. You cannot have those two things, the Prime Minister has to have an attitude, I want to listen and then from there, everything flows down. Our Prime Minister doesn’t listen and because our Prime Minister doesn’t listen, no bureaucrat things needs to listen. I was talking to some bureaucrats from Europe and they are saying that the Indian Foreign Service has completely changed, they don’t listen anything, they are arrogant. Now, they are just telling us, what orders, they are getting, there is no conversation, you can’t do that.
Anchor said- But, good or bad, India presumably has to live with Narendra Modi for the next two years, and in that scenario how does the world tackle the Ukraine situation and what contribution can India make towards the solution, Rahul Gandhi said- Look, what is Ukraine. If you look at it. Ukraine is the Russians, saying to the Ukraine, that we refused to accept your territorial integrity. We refused to accept that these two districts belong to you and we are going to attack even these two districts to make sure that you break an alliance. To make sure that you break an alliance with the United States, that is what Putin is doing. Putin is saying- I am not ready to you, for you to have an alliance with America, and so I am going to question your territorial integrity, and I am going to attack you. Please, recognise the parallels between what is going on in Ukraine and what is going on in Ladakh and in Doklam. Please, realise that the same idea is at play. There are Chinese forces sitting in Ladakh, there are Chinese forces sitting in Doklam. The Doklam forces are designed for Arunachal Pradesh, and for the Ladakh, they have design for Ladakh and the same principle is there. What the Chinese are saying, we don’t accept your territoriality and please, we do not accept the relationship with the USA. So, we ask to realise that there is a problem on the border and we have to, whether we like it or not, we have to prepare for that problem because we .…(inaudible). My problem with the government is that they don’t allow a discussion. Chinese troops are sitting inside India today. They have just built a huge bridge over the Pangong Tso lake, why they are doing that? They are setting up their infrastructure. They are obviously preparing for something, but, the government doesn’t want to talk about it, government want to stifle the conversation that is bad for India. I mean, they can keep saying that I raise the China issue, yes, I raised the China issue, because I am worried about it. I am worried that Chinese troops are sitting inside India and I can see exactly what is happening in Ukraine.
I said this to the Foreign Minister. You know, in one of our conversations, but, he said- we know what, you have a point, that is interesting point to look at it. Please realise, there are parallels to what is going on.
Anchor said- and so, I will come to question from the audience because it is democratic that I do so, no question of, there will be very few, because, I am being signalled before the running out of time, before I let Rahul Go, let me just ask him, in politics and I have never been in politics, I am only an observer, Rahul Gandhi said taking a dig- You are in politics, I think every Indian is in politics…,
Anchor said- No! My grandfather was in politics, my great uncle was in politics but, I have never joined any political party, so I can’t say that I am in politics, neither in Britain, nor in India, having said that the way I look it at is that there are three roles primarily a politician can play in public life. One is an organisational role, the second is a Parliamentary role and the third for want of a better description a Gandhian role that is being at the head of a mass resistance, which do you think, you are best suited to? Rahul Gandhi said- See, I don’t buy the idea of the politician. I think of it, in terms of leadership and understanding. I think of it as there is a situation, first understand what is going on and I hope you got the same step, I do think about these things from the last half an hour or 45 minutes, and then understand where and how you can help. There is a place for parliamentary speeches, there is a place for organisation, there is a place for mass action, if I have said to you, you know what let’s do mass action in 2007, you would say, are you crazy. I would think to myself if I want and said lets relook in mass action in 2002, you didn’t, because you had a government that was not attacking and destroying the institutional framework, the way is furnished, so roles change and you adopt. I see myself, a somebody, who defends that idea of India I described to you, when I see our country’s voice is being crushed, it upsets me and I think about what I should do and what I can do to help and then my friend, you know, here do. It is a challenging situation, but, I think, there is a huge opportunity inside this thing, I feel. I feel that from this struggle that is coming, we will get India that is actually much better than the one, we have right now and the one we had even before. I think, there is something beautiful that can come out of this. I am not one of those people who says- you know, now It is all over and stuff like that I fundamentally believe in the spirit of our country.
A person from the audience asked that In India BJP is trying to put forward agenda and it is going full-fledged with that and we, Congress & its alliance partners are saying- stop BJP, should we have a combined strategy and a vision for 2024, which people will accept and people want that to be the vision for our great nation, Rahul Gandhi said- I don’t think, the opposition is simply saying- stop the BJP. They are, of course saying- stop the BJP, because the BJP is taking away, the architecture, through which we converse. For us to have an equal playing field with them, we need those institutions. We need a Judiciary, we need an Election Commission, we need a free Press, we need a system where we can finance ourselves the same way they do.
So, obviously, we are going to say- please, if you are attacking the institutional structure of India, stop, we have to do that, but, I don’t think the opposition is only saying- stop the BJP, but, we are saying is have an India where diverse views, different views have space and can negotiate. I disagree with my friend, Yechury on many things. He disagrees with me on probably more things than I disagree with him on, but, we talk. We have a conversation and we talk and I say- Yechury Ji, I don’t agree with this and he says – well, you know, I don’t agree with that. So, that conversation is what the opposition is trying to have, from the conversation will come great things.
A lady from the audience asked that what is the alternative organisational strategy to mobilise to get to either the mass movements or the other things that you mentioned that can be and a quick point on the foreign service, but, the huge personnel deficit, there is just not enough personnel on the ground, Rahul Gandhi said- The personnel deficit is not because we can’t have personnel. It’s because the Ministry wants to concentrate power. The system wants to concentrate power. So, I simply do not believe that India cannot recruit 10 thousand, 20 thousand, 30 thousand, 50 thousand exceptional people to be in the Foreign Ministry. … they don’t want to do it, because that what requires a decentralisation of power. It would require a completely different transmission of power. So, I am not the one, who believes that there are not enough brilliant youngsters in India who could be in the foreign services and I have seen this internally, I have seen this structure and it is not just a Foreign Ministry, it is everywhere, India loves to concentrate power.
The second question is people tell us that we should have a cadre like the BJP and I tell them, the day if we have a cadre like the BJP, we will be the BJP. We are a mass party. We are a party that listens to the expression of the Indian people. We have an organisational structure, but, it is no where near the organisational structure of the BJP and it should never ever be, because please realise what the BJP does is shout and stifle voices. What we do, is listen. The two different things, the two different designs.
A cadre is designed to stifle the voice. A cadre is told, you will say this and you will say nothing else and Yechury Ji is looking at me in a strange way, but, it is designed to push a particular set of Ideas down people throats, whether in his system is the communist Idea, in the RSS system it is true. We are not designed like that. We are designed to listen to the people of India and pull out their voice and place it on the table and we are in opportunity now that we haven’t had from many years to completely redesign the Congress through mass action. So that is and so to do lot of the opposition people.
Another person asked a question from the audience that you were probably the first leader ever after Ambedkar who openly speak against Manusmriti in Nagpur, will the Congress openly come up against the Caste system, Rahul Gandhi said- It is a bit unfair to say, I am the only leader who has done that. Let’s look at Mahatma Gandhi. The single biggest attack on Manusmriti in Indian history is the Constitution of India. There is no bigger attack on Manusmiriti then the Constitution of India. How does say- one man should get one vote equate to Manusmriti? Doesn’t? Right? And let’s look at Dr. Manmohan Singh, how does MGNREGA equate with Manusmriti. MGNREGA says- anybody who is ready to work, then work. MGNREGA doesn’t say- if you are an upper caste guy, you will get this much money; if you are a lower caste guy, you will get this much money. How does RTI equate with Manusmriti? Doesn’t, so, so the Congress through its actions has been attacking the social system of the country and it has done it throughout. Is the idea of liberalisation aligned with Manusmriti- No- it’s not, because according to Manusmriti only, you know, 2-3 people should have everything? They shouldn’t be sat on top.
So, the basic design of the Congress and everything that Congress does and all our workers that what they do, that’s why the BJP says- Congress Mukt Bharat. We fundamentally believe that India and every single human being in India should be given the same rights, the same opportunities. We believe that, one, because it is fair and two, because, we know that India can only survive if you do that, If you stop doing that, India will fragment.